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Post by toei on Jan 18, 2019 18:34:53 GMT -5
Ex and bone really went all out with the nonsense their controversial opinions, so I'll say it: the N64 is the worst major console of all time, and it should have been as big a flop in North America as it was in Japan. It has a library to compete with the 3DO and the Jaguar, not the PSX or Saturn, with about three notable games, only one of which really matters in terms of influence (Mario 64). And it goes without saying the Ocarina of time is massively overrated.
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Post by Xeogred on Jan 18, 2019 18:35:11 GMT -5
2 was the "Best Of" without the fluff. I like 3D World more than both AND Odyssey though, just to throw that out there. That one captured the magic for me! I always roll my eyes when people assume it's just some hellish multiplayer only game too... it's not! Can be played entirely solo and the "post end game" content is freaking 3 full worlds where the difficulty explodes. I loved that. Ultimately though yeah, they all destroy Sunshine. I legit hate that one.
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Post by Sarge on Jan 18, 2019 18:40:22 GMT -5
Dang, bringing the harshness on the N64. I do agree, however, that outside of the Virtual Boy, it's Nintendo's worst system. Still, games I enjoyed I can think of off the top of my head: Ocarina of TimePaper MarioOgre Battle 64Kirby 64Super Smash Bros.Perfect DarkMario 64DK64 (I know, I know!) Hybrid HeavenGoldeneye 007Mischief MakersMario Kart 64I know there are others, but still, it comes in on the weak side of things. Although (another unpopular opinion here!) I think the Gamecube was a pretty weak system overall as well. Not necessarily for third-party games, because there are quite a few titles off the beaten path that I love. But Nintendo's output? Not my favorite. I think their Wii output was much better.
Xeogred: Didn't hate Sunshine, but it ain't great. Nintendo had a rough go during the Gamecube years. Still, we got Metroid Prime, so it wasn't all bad!
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Post by toei on Jan 18, 2019 19:20:45 GMT -5
The Game Cube was nothing much, either, and the purple box design was trash, but at least it got a few RPGs. I'd still take the Dreamcast over it, and its lifespan was about half or a standard console's lifespan. I like the Dreamcast, but its biggest fans seem to underestimate how quickly it died. Had it lasted 5-6 years, the library should have been 2 to 3 times larger, and I'd have spent a lot more time on it.
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Post by Xeogred on Jan 18, 2019 19:20:51 GMT -5
The N64 is a complex subject. Nowadays I mostly agree that it's one of the weakest systems in the long run and frankly, it's the one I've had boxed away the most consecutively and longest across my lifetime. I literally cannot even remember the last time I had it hooked up and played stuff off of it directly. While I don't have a PSX around, I've had the PS2/PS3's to give me immediate access to that library and there's still always a few games I want to go back to and checkout, that huge library holds up with plenty of greats. And I will more than likely continue to discover some of its gems throughout the years. But to deny the insane amount of fun I had with the N64 for a few years back in the late 90's would be outlandish. Mario 64 blew my face off when it came out and a friend of mine and I were jumping up and down in my grandparents basement freaking out how it was the best thing ever made. Ocarina of Time I saved up a whole summers worth of allowance for, the gold cart and box, and let's not forget when some games ran for $80! Then there was the deluge of multiplayer and co-op fun from Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, to the wrestling onslaught when the Attitude Era went mainstream and we got WCW vs NWO Revenge (among some others), the beginning of Smash Bros (which the concept was insane at the time), I loved the Rush games, some of Rare's weirder output like Blast Corps, F-Zero X completely rules, Mischief Makers was bizarre and amazing, Bomberman 64 still being one of the coolest/weirdest platformer/puzzle games out there, etc. Sometimes... things are best left in the past actually. I will never betray and turn my back on the N64. But do I have much interest in it thesedays? Not at all really. But I will cherish those memories. Sarge, you're alone on DK64 man... But the Gamecube? Now that I can't defend at all! Metroid finally made a comeback, but I'm drawing a blank beyond that. The worst 3D Mario, the worst 3D Zelda (and then I just played Twilight Princess on the Wii, which was a completely fine version), etc. 99% of things I would want to play on the Gamecube, I can play on the PS2 or Xbox. I'd also wager the Gamecube controller is worse than the N64's. I can't stand that thing and it's stupid cartoony and differently shaped buttons.
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Post by Sarge on Jan 18, 2019 20:07:31 GMT -5
Oh, DK64 has its problems, not the least of which is too much collecting. But it's also crazy ambitious, and has some solid level layouts. I think it's good, but flawed, so I'd probably give it a 7. Anyway, the Gamecube had some great games, and I think toei 's right: there were several very good RPGs, a few of which came straight from the Dreamcast. I'll always recommend Tales of Symphonia, Skies of Arcadia, and Baten Kaitos. And I started ragging on the first-party output a bit more, but remembered that Twilight Princess is there, and that counts. Still, Sunshine was weak, Wind Waker was weak (for a Zelda game, anyway), the system made the mistake of launching without a proper Mario game ( Luigi's Mansion is fun, sure, but not a system-seller), and if memory serves, even Nintendo's sports games (1080, Wave Race) weren't as good as their N64 counterparts. It did give us F-Zero GX, though. Technically, that's a Sega game, though. EDIT: Gah, too new.
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Post by Ex on Jan 18, 2019 23:13:56 GMT -5
Terranigma is incredibly overrated, buoyed ludicrously due to forbidden fruit syndrome. The Endless Ocean games are the best thing Nintendo's been involved with in the past ten years. The first Ace Attorney is the only good game of the initial trilogy.
Newer is NOT always better.
The best game Rare made on the N64 was Blast Corps by a wide margin.
Secret of Mana's actual game design has aged considerably poorly.
The sixth gen Grand Theft Auto games were boring as hell low IQ gamer bait.
Demon's Souls is as much a work of art as Shadow of the Colossus, Dear Esther, or Journey.
The Etrian Odyssey series should never have added difficulty selection.
I enjoy the PSG version of Master System game OSTs more than the FM version.
Achievements are dumb. Trophies are dumb. I don't want a fourth wall breaking gold star for playing a video game well, thanks.
The death of CiNG was proof positive this industry has no soul.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2019 11:12:34 GMT -5
Persona 1-2 are traditional JRPGs. The romance and social elements were introduced with Persona 3. I agree completely with them feeling bloated, but the actual gameplay/social interactions ratio is still somewhat bearable and I could enjoy it to some extent. It would help it the writing was good, but it isn't. I heard it gets worse with later installments, but I don't know.
The N64 being a weak console isn't much of a controversial opinion, but it's a different story for the Dreamcast. I also didn't know there were so many Castlevania 2 lovers - and Castlevania 3 bashers - around here, either. I suppose that puts me in the minority, although I don't have a strong opinion about Castlevania 2, I just didn't play it long enough.
As for controversial opinions, I don't know really, I would put Rule of Rose above SH2, but I still love SH2. I would put Quake above Doom and Quake 4 above Doom 3 - but I still love all of them. I would put Metroid above Super Metroid - alright, I guess that's controversial. I think Genealogy of the Holy War was the weakest Fire Emblem I've ever played - which is probably a very controversial opinion somewhere else.
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Post by Sarge on Jan 19, 2019 14:23:29 GMT -5
I love Terranigma, but we've talked about this before. The Starstone hunt didn't bother me as much as it did you. I don't think it's perfect (the localization could have been a bit better, for instance), but the combat is some of the tightest on the system. I still plan on getting to the Endless Ocean games. I picked them up at your behest, Ex ! I've never cared for GTA. It feels like much of the fun derived from those games revolves around just screwing around, and I need more goal-oriented play. Not that they don't have such things, but it isn't the strong point. Achievements don't bother me. I did stop keeping track a while back. Thankfully, you can disable the prompts in-game so they don't break immersion. I did remember another great N64 game, though, and that's Mario Tennis. That may be the best tennis game I've ever played. Absolutely fantastic stuff, and I think the whole super-shot deal in later games ruins it. @tsumuri : For the record, I still think Castlevania III is fantastic. I'm just not sure it's far and away better than the other two on the system. I prize Castlevania II for its RPG elements, and the first game for its almost pitch-perfect pacing. The third game subscribes to the "more is better" mantra, and I'm not sure that always works. toei : I forgot to address it, but I agree, Ocarina of Time is definitely overrated. The original N64 release was bandied about as the greatest game of all time, and it isn't that. I do think of it as a great game, especially after replaying the 3DS remake, but several 3D entries are better, and many of the 2D entries tower over it. (Honestly, I would love to see a remake of Link's Awakening, where the only thing they really changed was improving the inventory system, especially regarding the dash boots/power bracelet.)
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Post by bonesnapdeez on Jan 19, 2019 18:03:27 GMT -5
N64 is a good system. I don't like to "compare" it to the Saturn or PSX; it really feels like its "own thing." It's way worse than the SNES, there's tons of crap games, but also plenty of gems. I actually enjoy some of those "unnecessary" Western reboot/sequels, like Lode Runner 3-D. Hey, Ex, www.romhacking.net/translations/3170/(although it's still waaaaaay better on PCE)
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