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Post by paulofthewest on Sept 27, 2021 16:58:06 GMT -5
Did you find the one where you can talk to Vault Boy? He will even join your squad if you have less than a full roster. No, I missed that one... The fact there was an option and it work well is impressive. Although, I noticed I had difficulty switching back to real-time in the middle of battle. If they allowed me to switch I think I would have used it more. On the other hand, there could be some abusing of the system if a complete combat turn wasn't finish when switching.
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Post by Ex on Sept 27, 2021 20:34:27 GMT -5
paulofthewest Do you remember your clear time? I'd be interested in knowing how playing the game in RTS mode sped up the completion rate. - I still plan to finish Blue Dragon Plus. I just got distracted with Monstania and Digital Devil Saga. Might not finish BDP this month, but it'll happen.
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Post by toei on Sept 28, 2021 7:30:06 GMT -5
I just gave Majin Tensei 2 a try. Seems like it'll be nothing but basic SRPG battles back to back with little strategy (ie not even rear attacks, etc.), which is what much of the genre was in its early days. I might've played it in my RPG-glutton days, but I get the feeling I'd get bored with it long before the end. The DS MegaTen SRPGs at least have a bit more going on gameplay-wise. Of course, it's possible that it gets more interesting after a while. I guess I'll find out if Xeogred gets back to it. Blue Dragon Plus's gameplay sounds a lot more intriguing to me. I've always been curious about it, so I look forward to Ex 's final thoughts.
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Post by Xeogred on Sept 28, 2021 8:19:08 GMT -5
I just gave Majin Tensei 2 a try. Seems like it'll be nothing but basic SRPG battles back to back with little strategy (ie not even rear attacks, etc.), which is what much of the genre was in its early days. I might've played it in my RPG-glutton days, but I get the feeling I'd get bored with it long before the end. The DS MegaTen SRPGs at least have a bit more going on gameplay-wise. Of course, it's possible that it gets more interesting after a while. I guess I'll find out if Xeogred gets back to it. Well, I did find a clunky LP and skimmed around to a battle or two later from where I left off: youtu.be/6Tt_1rlZpgc?t=9462 EDIT: This battle here and the next one go for what looks like a combined 2 hours and 30 minutes, of just pure thin gameplay. Yeah, I had a hunch this would feel very long like that haha...
I get the vibe that yeah, the only thing that gets more "advanced" about the battles is being able to recruit monsters and have a lot more units on the map. That's more fun than the early stretch of just controlling 1-3 units by far, but it definitely seems like this kind of has no business being an SRPG and using a grid/map system. With such bare bones combat, it just makes all that stuff on a grid board tedious busywork when this could be a quicker normal JRPG if you were just walking through dungeons instead. But if I recall, the early main SMT's were first person dungeon crawlers, so I guess this was just one of the many experimental spinoffs.
The presentation is amazing so that's kind of a shame. I think Shining Force is the most basic SRPG I've played that still has just enough going on to be interesting and fun, so maybe that's the bar of what I'd expect from an SRPG. Maybe the early Fire Emblem's are solid too? But I can see how the 8/16bit era is probably hit or miss for this genre.
I probably won't get back to Arc the Lad Twilight either, but it's definitely not bad. I kind of just needed a breather after SMT3 so I didn't dive too deeply into another RPG for most of this month, until now with DQ8 haha. I'll maybe pick Twilight back up someday, it'll go in my "second chance" pile for now.
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Post by toei on Sept 28, 2021 10:29:24 GMT -5
Langrisser is probably the only OG SRPG series to have more depth strategically. The rest of the genre really took a forward leap when it switched from "strategy RPGs" to "tactical RPGs", via Tactics Ogre. Out of the "simple" early SRPGs, Shining Force, Fire Emblem (usually) and a few others like Just Breed and FEDA (which is a Shining Force game in all but name) were good, but many were hugely tedious and boring. Fire Emblem has a few things over Shining Force in terms of gameplay; it's more difficult and the rock-paper-scissors system forces you to plan your moves, but the permadeaths are debatable (who wants to restart a battle 45 minutes in just because an enemy appeared out of nowhere or landed a critical?), and the reinforcements are really annoying. I also find the SF universe more interesting.
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Post by Ex on Sept 28, 2021 10:35:54 GMT -5
enemy appeared out of nowhere That's my #1 problem with FE games. Magically enemies just warp in anywhere on the map at any time (though usually at borders). Yes fog of war exists in battles, but when the fog of war is literally impermeable due to existing outside the player's possible realm of knowledge... that's just bad design for a strategy game. Fog of war should be able to be mitigated via recon, but that's not possible in FE, because you can't recon beyond the battle area, which is often where surprise enemy units spawn from. I consider it a shitty form of artificial difficulty.
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Post by toei on Sept 28, 2021 10:54:13 GMT -5
It is, and beyond difficulty, it's often demoralizing because the battles are long enough without it. You think you're finally done, and then some more damn mooks appear. There are games that have reinforcements where it doesn't bother me as much, but with FE it's too systematic.
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Post by Xeogred on Sept 28, 2021 11:02:31 GMT -5
I completely forgot about that with Fire Emblem. I'm still only played the GBA ones. But I definitely remember those games being chalk full of the "reinforcements!" mid battle. Sometimes that's pretty annoying in SPRG's.
Valkyria Chronicles did the fog of war thing really well for a 3D styled one too. Some units like scouts and snipers could spot units (that then get tracked on the map if they stay in their vision) and height would come into play sometimes, being able to climb up a tower for sniping and stuff. You'd get flanked sometimes by grunt scout units prone and hiding in grass but that's a really cool way to do that and it was never like a whole squad of enemies. Definitely screwed me over sometimes haha, but yeah it felt fair and realistically/mechanically well implemented.
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Post by Ex on Sept 28, 2021 11:19:43 GMT -5
I've played a few FE games, and most of them weren't particularly good. The only FE I've played that was not only good, but GREAT even, was Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance. That one was very well designed, and didn't screw the player over in ways that were outright unfair. I actually bothered to finish it (and enjoyed doing so).
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Post by Xeogred on Sept 28, 2021 14:25:27 GMT -5
I've played a few FE games, and most of them weren't particularly good. The only FE I've played that was not only good, but GREAT even, was Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance. That one was very well designed, and didn't screw the player over in ways that were outright unfair. I actually bothered to finish it (and enjoyed doing so). Usually hear good things about that one. Doesn't it have a direct sequel on the Wii?
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