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Post by Ex on Dec 22, 2021 11:23:39 GMT -5
For what's worth, Suda 51 admits the DS version was less than stellar. Well he is correct! |
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Post by toei on Dec 22, 2021 17:08:29 GMT -5
Xeogred To be fair, the conversation with the last boss is the worst part of like 95% of Japanese RPGs. FINAL BOSS: WHAT ARE HUMANS GOOD FOR? GREED, WAR, DESTRUCTION! I AM SO DEEP DUDE. Earnest hero: Humans also have love! FINAL BOSS: LOVE LOL WTF IS THAT NEVER HEARD OF IT Earnest hero: I will fight to protect the ones I love! You know the drill.
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Post by Sarge on Dec 22, 2021 17:27:13 GMT -5
Baaaaaarf.
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Post by Ex on Dec 22, 2021 21:51:11 GMT -5
Xeogred To be fair, the conversation with the last boss is the worst part of like 95% of Japanese RPGs. FINAL BOSS: WHAT ARE HUMANS GOOD FOR? GREED, WAR, DESTRUCTION! I AM SO DEEP DUDE. Earnest hero: Humans also have love! FINAL BOSS: LOVE LOL WTF IS THAT NEVER HEARD OF IT Earnest hero: I will fight to protect the ones I love! FINAL BOSS: I WILL DESTROY THE ONES YOU "LOVE" AND THIS PLANET Earnest hero: You will not, for my friends are with me! Earnest hero's party members: We are with you earnest hero! FINAL BOSS: GOOD YOU CAN ALL DIE TOGETHER MWAAHAHAHA Earnest hero: No, for we have the power of friendship! Earnest hero's party members: The power of friendship! Earnest hero: The power of love and friendship! Earnest hero's party members: Love and friendship will defeat you! FINAL BOSS: YOU MAKE ME SICK SHUT UP AND DIE (earnest hero and friends defeat the final boss's three forms)FINAL FINAL FINAL BOSS: NO I CANNOT BELIEVE I'VE LOST Earnest hero: You lost to the power of love and friendship! Earnest hero: Now we must never harm the planet again. Earnest hero's party members: It is because of our pollution and wars that the final boss was born. Earnest hero: But our love and friendship overcame our mistakes. Earnest hero's party members: As long as we are friends we will have love. Earnest hero: And our love will heal the planet.
(Ex pukes  )(credits roll) |
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Post by toei on Dec 23, 2021 6:57:51 GMT -5
That was almost complete, except you missed the part where the hero says "everyone... thank you!" after they say they'll fight together (as if it were in question - they've been there for several dungeons at least, why would they suddenly leave?) Also, it's not the pollution, it's the evil in the hearts of people. Which I love when 99% of the people you meet in an RPG are super nice and friendly but it's still the darkness in their hearts that brought the ancient demon back to life. All it takes is like 4 bad people and a demon gets to show up and destroy entire towns? Seems a little harsh.
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Post by Ex on Dec 23, 2021 10:41:55 GMT -5
toeiThe most common trope in JRPGs that makes me is the whole "power of friendship" angle that defeats any adversary. Inferring that one is weak alone but with many is strong. I know this is a Japanese culture thing at the heart of it. ("The nail that stands out gets hammered.") But I don't like the precedent it sets in young players' minds that they are useless without help. Even as a kid playing 8/16-bit JRPGs that particular idealism always made me irritated. Then there's the thing where everybody in the party keeps repeating what everyone else said. A very simple example: Hero X: There's a slime! Hero Y: A slime? Hero Z: A slime is here. (heroes kill slime) Hero X: It dropped a treasure chest. Hero Y: A treasure chest! Hero Z: A treasure chest...? Always comes across as filler text in JRPGs to me ( Golden Sun anyone?), and I see tons of this trope in visual novels as well. But it also happens in manga sometimes and anime often, leading me to think this is some kind of Japanese culture thing in their dialogue interaction. I've played JRPGs where "the evil in our hearts" caused a great demon to rise and attack the planet/humanity. But I've also played JRPGs where literal pollution created the same circumstance. With most older JRPGs it always seems to be this formula: Something humans did released a demon/dragon. Demon/dragon intends to destroy all of humanity/planet. Teenage heroes band together to stop it. Teenage heroes stop it through power of friendship. I've said before, and I'll say it again; I enjoy JRPGs but I don't play them for their writing. It's the rare JRPG that has legitimately good storytelling.
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Post by Xeogred on Dec 23, 2021 10:55:55 GMT -5
The Xenoblade's are certainly guilty of this but I still think cool enough characters or other plot points can wash it away. So these tropes don't bother me as much as others but yeah it's very true, it's hilarious, sometimes terrible, and gets some eye rolls. This is the case in a lot of anime/shounens as well. It just further makes me believe the older I get the more it seems most of Japan's entertainment is geared towards younger audiences (maybe in the gaming/anime sectors) and in weirder ways, might represent a lot of their hardcore work culture longing for simpler times in their younger days...
I dunno. I don't want Japan to change, but every culture has its goofy tropes haha.
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Post by toei on Dec 23, 2021 13:50:35 GMT -5
The good writing in JRPGs is usually found in the journey itself, not the excuse for the journey, which is all the villain is.
Also, that thing you pointed out is definitely a Japanese thing and not meant as filler. It happens in movies and dramas too. People will repeat or restate something to confirm it. Typically, they won't do turn-by-turn, of course, so it's only really an issue in text, IMO.
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Post by Sarge on Dec 23, 2021 14:07:47 GMT -5
Well, that's a point Chrono Trigger has in its favor. But even Final Fantasy VI, as great as it is, has a little bit of that melodrama at the end.
(Also, pet peeve, but why do some streamers and let's players think they need to read aloud every single line of dialogue? It's obnoxious.)
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Post by Chema on Dec 23, 2021 15:18:03 GMT -5
 The last game I dumped was Ubisoft's XIII, a competent first person shooter based on a series of Belgian comics that I am very fond of. The last boss fight in the game is absurdly difficult and is preceded by an unskippable cutscene. I've got no patience for bad design flaws like this. Good thing I know how the story ends, so I don't regret quitting right before the ending. |
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