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Post by Ex on Jul 29, 2019 9:40:07 GMT -5
after they were split in two they ended up moving things around so each game would feel complete and have its own distinct feel I will say the two games do have a distinct feel for sure. Have you ever read anywhere that the level designers were different per game? I know you do some deep dive research into stuff like this from to time. I know that Hirokazu Yasuhara was the lead game designer for both, but that doesn't have anything to do with the level designers themselves.
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Post by Sarge on Jul 29, 2019 10:29:59 GMT -5
I've always wanted to run through the whole experience. I'm pretty sure I've beaten both of them separately, but that has been a long time ago, and likely would have been emulating in KGen. Good times, good times!
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Post by Xeogred on Jul 29, 2019 11:23:54 GMT -5
The S3 levels are much more choppy, with lots of stop & go, and booby traps everywhere, and are also incredibly long. However the S&K levels flow more smoothly, are less trollish, and not quite as long - thus far. It does "feel" like different level designers constructed the S3 levels versus the S&K levels. Although I haven't done the research to verify if that's true.
Angel Island Zone - weirdly drab and depressing first zones for a Sonic game, weak Hydrocity Zone - Alright I love this area, musically too Marble Garden Zone - WTF is this? Carnival Night Zone - Worst music in the franchise, literally hurts my ears IceCap Zone - Musically redeemed and I enjoy some good snowy/icey zones, love it Launch Base Zone - Not bad, but feels hardly worthy or epic for a final level in the base Sonic 3 game
I have fun when I play Sonic 3 and have done the lock-on combo a lot, but yeah it's easily been my least favorite of the old 2D Sonic's by a long shot.
I don't love Sandopolis in S&K since it's a bit long, but the rest is awesome with some of my favorite themes in the series.
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Post by toei on Jul 29, 2019 11:35:58 GMT -5
Ugh, yeah, Sandopolis. I hate that damn place. Ex I seem to recall an in-depth video about S&K that was posted here that talked about the transition a bit, but I don't think it specified who did what levels. The way I remember it is more that they changed the level order, and maybe made some changes within them as well, but that's just going off memory on something I only watched once. Looking at the credits on mobygames, the only difference I see is that two of the people credited as Senior Designers in Sonic 3 are credited as Senior Programmers in S&K instead (one of them also gets programming credits on Sonic 3, the other doesn't). So I can't really say.
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Post by Ex on Jul 29, 2019 12:08:33 GMT -5
Yeah that stage was hellish, I couldn't get through it fast enough. Amusingly enough, one of my only memories of playing S&K back in '96/97, was indeed of Sandopolis. I distinctly remember thinking; "Why the hell is this zone so damn long?!" Although I found myself recently thinking that same thing about some of the Sonic 3 levels. I actually ran out of TIME in one of the S3 levels. Meaning a single stage within the zone lasted more than TEN MINUTES. That's just dumb for a Sonic level. These games are supposed to be about GOTTA GO FAST and flying through stages. Or at least, that's how I like for the gameplay to be. Interesting. If that were the literal case, one would assume different designers handled S&K - and possibly its level designs as a result. Anyway, tonight I get to pick the game back up, maybe even finish it. Although I'm starting right at Sandopolis when I do.
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Post by toei on Jul 29, 2019 15:03:33 GMT -5
I've run out of time in Sandopolis several times, too. That part with the slides used to really throw me off.
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Post by Sarge on Jul 29, 2019 15:40:46 GMT -5
I may have hit the wall as far as gaming the last few days. Not that I didn't want to play anything, but I kinda didn't really feel like it. I hate those kinds of days. So I watched a lot of Stargate SG-1 (I'm in Season 9!), and dabbled on and off with a few games. I may be done with this theme at this point unless the bug hits me with something short. Still, I got some great games in:
- Castlevania II: Simon's Quest (NES) (8.0) (7/7) (5 hours) - Devil May Cry (PS2) (9.0) (7/10) (6.5 hours) - Ape Escape (PSX) (8.5) (7/14) (8 hours) - Mega Man 7 (SNES) (7.0) (7/16) (2.5 hours) - Blaster Master (NES) (8.0) (7/21) (4 hours)
And I'm no longer afraid of a Blaster Master playthrough anymore. I remember it being brutal back in the day, but once you figure out the tough spots, no-death runs should be surprisingly easy to pull off.
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Post by Xeogred on Jul 29, 2019 15:51:01 GMT -5
Same here weirdly enough, Sarge. I had all these exciting plans to play a lot of this stuff this weekend (Sun-Mon for me) then kind of just felt like crap and haven't gotten much done.
Adventures of Lolo (NES) Star Wars: Dark Forces* (PC) Thunder Force IV* (Genesis) Shinobi III: Return of the Ninja Master* (Genesis)
Lolo was cool, even if I still can't figure out which one I played as a kid. Guess that's 25 years for you! It might have been 3, which I still need to check out. I stalled on 2 after getting about halfway in, as mentioned in the Games Not Finished thread. I'll get back to it someday since it seems great too, I just don't recommend marathoning puzzle game sequels back to back.
I'll say Dark Forces was the big highlight, since Thunder Force IV and Shinobi III I've beaten numerous times so they didn't totally fit here. This was my second time through Dark Forces though and I had some nitpicks, but it was super cozy and fun. Definitely wish it was longer or that we got a sequel in that same engine and style before Jedi Knight.
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Post by Sarge on Jul 29, 2019 15:55:43 GMT -5
Definitely happy you got Dark Forces in. Definitely one of the best DOOM clones out there, although the platforming and mission objectives (on top of the setting) give it a unique feel.
I still need to get around to Thunder Force IV when the shmup bug hits me again. That's the one localized as Lightening Force, right? ("Lightening". Ha.) I've actually got a complete copy of that game... or at minimum the hard case and cart.
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Post by Xeogred on Jul 29, 2019 16:23:26 GMT -5
Definitely happy you got Dark Forces in. Definitely one of the best DOOM clones out there, although the platforming and mission objectives (on top of the setting) give it a unique feel. I still need to get around to Thunder Force IV when the shmup bug hits me again. That's the one localized as Lightening Force, right? ("Lightening". Ha.) I've actually got a complete copy of that game... or at minimum the hard case and cart. Lightening Force: Quest for the Darkstar
Yeah, I'm not sure how "Thunder Force IV" became that.
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