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Post by Ex on Aug 21, 2022 20:24:26 GMT -5
paulofthewestThanks for the explanation. You're not the first person I've heard complain about programming for the PS3, it was clearly a nightmare in that regard. Sony learned their lesson at least, hence the PS4 is far easier to contend with. As far as Sony's controllers go, I've been happy with every iteration of the DualShock personally. I mean even the original DualShock was great compared to the N64 and Dreamcast's goofy controllers. But that's all a matter of personal taste so fair enough. I agree that SCEA being anti-2D with the PS1 was dumb. My only current beef with Sony is their love of censorship for USA games. The Vita and PS4 both had a lot of games censored (getting rid of lewd/ecchi stuff). Yet Nintendo was far less stringent about censorship with the Switch, so I give Nintendo props in that aspect.
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Post by Sarge on Aug 21, 2022 20:45:31 GMT -5
Unless I've missed counting a case somewhere (possible!), I'm sitting at 45 physical games right now, and there are definitely more that I'd like to get. I'm sure the number would be inflated if I didn't have a PS4, but often I choose that platform if the Switch version isn't up to snuff.
I've always heard that the PS3 was a beast to program for, and that's also what has made it a beast to emulate well. PS2 also had some of the same issues, although probably to a lesser degree, and Sony was so dominant that developers just had to roll with it. I don't think the PS2 hardware was necessarily bad, but it definitely wasn't it was all it was hyped to be, either. Both the GC and the XBOX handily bested it - honestly, it saddens me that folks didn't realize how powerful the GC hardware really was. It, of course, was held back some by the mini-disc format, though.
Anyway, their runaway success with the PS2 definitely led to their hubris with the PS3. But I've seen all the major console players exhibit hubris from time to time, so I'm perhaps a bit more forgiving than most. Even my beloved Nintendo has made some... questionable decisions along the way, although I think I cut them a bit more slack considering they're not the giant corporations that are Sony and Microsoft.
Sega's whole story depresses me when I look back. Saturn was definitely when the seeds were sown for Dreamcast's destruction. All the infighting was pretty insane.
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Post by Xeogred on Aug 21, 2022 22:42:19 GMT -5
Not to mention Sega Japan and Sega USA sounded like two entirely separate operations that didn't co-exist very well. Huh, in this YouTube landscape, wonder if there's a good deep dive / documentary on 90's Sega floating around now hehe.
That's a good point about most of the big publishers getting a bit too up on their high horse in some eras. Sony with the PS3 and that insane price point, then Xbox thought the same with their ridiculous launch of the One. Always nice to see them get humbled and taken down a notch again, for the best to consumers usually.
I'm telling you guys from all the rumblings I hear, it sounds like Metal Gear Solid 4's code is so tied to the PS3 hardware... it may never escape that console. It's that and I hear they had to pull some PSX/emulation wizardry for certain scenes too. I guess Koji Pro literally had the game access the PS3's internal emulator or something. Crazy stuff, so yeah, I hear the Cell was a real nightmare to work with and MGS4 is such a bizarre case. Plus a lot of 3rd party games from that era were usually better on the 360, must have been easier for most devs to work with.
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Post by Ex on Aug 22, 2022 9:20:33 GMT -5
sounds like Metal Gear Solid 4's code is so tied to the PS3 hardware... it may never escape that console I don't doubt it. Some games are so "coded to the metal" that ends up being the case. The case when you've got proprietary esoteric hardware anyway, which the PS3 certainly has. MGS4 would either have to be recoded from the ground up for another platform, or there would need to be a PS3 emulator running in the background to render the game. This is the case for some other PS3 exclusives as well. I cut them a bit more slack considering they're not the giant corporations that are Sony and Microsoft Historically that is true. These days Nintendo generates higher operating profit when compared to Microsoft and Sony's gaming divisions. Nintendo is flush with capital. Disgustingly enough though, the video game company with the current highest operating profit is not Nintendo, Microsoft, or Sony... it's Tencent. Anecdotally, the gaming market as a whole is not doing so hot right now: investortimes.com/sony-nintendo-microsoft-stock/www.cnbc.com/2022/08/08/microsoft-xbox-sony-playstation-nintendo-video-game-earnings-round-up.html
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Post by bonesnapdeez on Aug 22, 2022 10:27:20 GMT -5
Sony just seems laughable to me. Expensive hardware (forget the PS5 -- it's difficult to even find an affordable PS4 slim), lame Western exclusives, censored and poorly localized Japanese games. Microsoft consoles are just sterile and boring and don't really stand out from PC gaming at all. 7th gen was the last gen were all three systems seemed to stand out in a meaningful way, and even then the PS3 and Xbox 360 were too similar for my tastes.
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Post by Ex on Aug 22, 2022 10:42:45 GMT -5
>Expensive hardware (forget the PS5 -- it's difficult to even find an affordable PS4 slim)
I agree 100%.
>lame Western exclusives
I don't totally agree with this, but it's a matter of taste fair enough.
>censored and poorly localized Japanese games
For me that's a case by case basis. I will agree on the censorship problem though. Nintendo got a little censorship happy during the Wii U years, but they straightened up after that.
>Microsoft consoles are just sterile and boring and don't really stand out from PC gaming at all.
Post-Xbox 360 I agree 100%. The One and the Series X/S are yawn city. Zero interest.
>7th gen was the last gen were all three systems seemed to stand out in a meaningful way
I agree completely.
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Post by Sarge on Aug 22, 2022 12:50:28 GMT -5
I mean, PS4 and XB1 (and the current ones) are basically just PCs. If you don't have the money to spring for a good gaming rig, the PS5 or XSX are a solid value proposition, especially if you don't want to fuss with a PC. I still haven't gotten either of the current-gen consoles because, well, there's just not enough for me to justify the purchase.
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Post by paulofthewest on Aug 22, 2022 15:19:16 GMT -5
The Vita and PS4 both had a lot of games censored (getting rid of lewd/ecchi stuff). Yet Nintendo was far less stringent about censorship with the Switch, so I give Nintendo props in that aspect. Hopefully Nintendo learned their lesson about silly restrictions with the Wii U. I have seen the argument that letting all games in floods the market with bad games. I get that, but I don't have to buy the bad ones... I don't think the PS2 hardware was necessarily bad, but it definitely wasn't it was all it was hyped to be, either. Both the GC and the XBOX handily bested it - honestly, it saddens me that folks didn't realize how powerful the GC hardware really was. It, of course, was held back some by the mini-disc format, though. The over hype really got to me. I remember reading certain games (not all) ran better on Dreamcast than PS2. Probably for coding reasons. If Sega just release the Saturn as the "Ultimate 2D 32-bit console" I think they would have had a decent run with the Saturn. There were plenty of good 2D games (especially fighters) the Saturn would have come out early (getting rid of the Genesis extension), and the Saturn would be cheaper. It is sad.
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Post by Ex on Aug 22, 2022 15:35:05 GMT -5
I have seen the argument that letting all games in floods the market with bad games. There probably should be some signal to noise control for a given platform. If not, then give the customer a strong search engine filter to sort the wheat from the chaff.
To be clear though, the kind of censorship I was talking about was removing nudity, altering clothing to be less revealing, editing erotic cutscenes, replacing sexy character models with less sexy ones. That sort of western censorship of Japanese games I loathe to abide, and rarely do. Not just because I'm a Simple Man™, but out of respect for artistic integrity.
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Post by Sarge on Aug 22, 2022 15:42:48 GMT -5
I'm not sure marketing it as 2D would have helped, sadly. I distinctly remember the zeitgeist at the time viewing 2D gaming as "antiquated"... but perhaps they could have carved out a larger niche. I do think their bigger mistake was effectively abandoning the US market and what the US branch did to be successful, and instead chased being a success in Japan. And yeah, the system was somewhat successful there, but it still got trounced by Sony, and it got absolutely destroyed here.
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